Chicky: I could tell you that my mom told me stories about before. Years before they decided they were going to do what they did because they already had it in the plan. In Hoboken’s headquarters. It was called Model City. And, this one insider that was acquaintance with my mom, told my mom, I think he was a realtor. You should purchase property because this and this is gonna happen. It’s gonna happen. It’s in the plan. But, you know, for some reason, my mom didn’t do that. She didn’t do that, but, you know, the man was right. What we did know, all those persons…like, if you’re in there, you die. That’s how it went down. And the thing is that no one did anything about it. Everyone looked the other way. Cappiello, everybody, cops, you name it. It was a free for all. This is gonna happen, and nobody’s gonna prosecute anybody. Yeah. It was sad. Very sad.

Chicky: Did my sister tell you about the professor where she works at, he did a play on that. I went to that play. It was the last day, last show. I had to hold my tears back. I don’t know if you saw the play?

Chris: I saw it.

Chicky: I was holding it for dear life. My sister cried. She couldn’t help it. I had to turn my face away just not to look at her. And it’s sad because we still love Hoboken. My mom’s still in Hoboken. My mom, she’s a warrior. She’s 81 years old, and she still thinks she can hit you with her back bastón if she has to. (Chris laughs) Yeah, she’s like that. Where we lived in 116 14th Street, a couple of years before things started to happen, there was a realtor that went by. I wanna say I was, like, 17 years old. A realtor went by and tried to bamboozle my mom out of there, like, kinda forcing her out. And I got in the conversation. I said, excuse me, what you’re saying right now is illegal. You can’t force my mom out of here. This was years before this happened, and she’s not leaving. We’ll take it to court, he goes, oh, you’re feisty, and you know a lot. And I go, yeah. Because back then, I don’t know if Bibi mentioned, my sister, that her dad, her biological dad (Juan Garcia) had an organization called CUNA(Citizens United in New Action). He was for the people, for the Hispanics in general, not necessarily Puerto Ricans, but there were a lot of Puerto Ricans back in the day in Hoboken. He always made sure that the people were taken care of and that others could not bamboozle them into doing something they didn’t want or illegally evicting them or trying to do anything that was against the law. And so he taught me a lot when I was young and he used to have me go with certain adults at the time that did not speak English, so I would help them. I would translate for them. I was young, but, you know, I didn’t care. I wanted to do this. Going to court, helping them out, and do what I had to do. This realtor, I told him no. You know, you can’t do this. My mom’s not leaving. So he actually offered me a job at the realty place because the receptionist that was there had given labor and they needed somebody to take over. So I said, okay. I took her summer job there. It was just for the summer, and the guy couldn’t do anything with my mom because I told him you can’t. We’ll take you to court. You can’t do this. This was years before everything started to happen.

Chicky: The one that stuck in my memory, and I know my sister too because we were right across. My mom had that store, that candy store that’s now owned by someone else. They kinda, like, put it in half, but my mom had both sides. My grandma and my grandfather had a Cuchifrito in 161 14th Street. Right when you get in towards that corner, there’s like a bar there or something. I don’t know. It was always dark. The building right before that, the second one, 161, my grandmother lived there for years with my brother. My brother passed away. I don’t know if she told you?

Chris: No

Chicky: When they came from Puerto Rico, they lived on Willow and then they moved to that building on 161. They were on the 2nd floor, and they were there until she died. My grandfather died. And my brother, at 49 had an asthma attack. His heart couldn’t take it, and he passed away there.

Chris: That’s terrible.

Chicky: Yeah. And let me tell you something. Believe it or not, you got time for this? Because I love talking! (Chris laughs)

Chris: Go ahead girl that’s why I’m here!

Chicky: I just don’t want to throw you off track, but I just wanna give you the story. My brother, that was, alright, Crystal’s 18, that was 17 years ago when he passed away. I was living in Florida, for 20 years, and I came back, now it’s been almost 11 years. But, one of my trips, I would come and go for Christmas, and I would spend New Year’s and then New Year’s Day, I would leave. I remember my brother taking me to the airport. It was really shitty weather. It was like, sleet, snow, it was terrible. And he goes, you know, only a brother would do this. And I go, really Willy, I really appreciate this. So I left. On the second or the third day of me being back in Florida I had a dream. I call my sister, Nelly, which is the oldest. She’s just a year older than me. And I go Nelly, I had this weird dream about Willie’s building. I had a dream that I was standing outside of his building. I was calling 2 men that were walking by, and I was in such anger because I was telling the man, look! Look what they did! And the building was condemned and grayish looking and the window of my brother’s room was somewhat open from the bottom. And I was telling the men to look, look, this is terrible. So when I called my brother on a three way with my sister, because she forced me to do that, I tell him the dream, he said, man Chicky, I don’t like that dream. And I told him, Willie, that doesn’t mean you’re gonna die. But because there’s so much shit that’s happened with the fires, you need to be careful. Just be alert in case something happens and you need to run. This could be a warning that that could happen in your building. Those are my thoughts. I dreamt that January 3rd. He died February 6th. Literally, a month later. I was shocked beyond shock. Obviously, devastated because that was my oldest brother. He wasn’t raised with us. He was raised with my grandma. But that was my brother, and I could not believe that that was a warning. And he actually said, I don’t like that dream. He knew somehow, like, this has to do with death. And I told him, Willie, it doesn’t mean you’re gonna die. It could mean that they’re gonna burn the building down. You just have to be careful.

Chicky: I wanna talk to you about, I’m sure my sister must have talked to you about the fire that was right across from the store. The rumors were that they paid this guy that I actually know. I think it was Jimmy Lisboa. That’s the rumor. That was the rumor between the young folks because even if it was a rumor, I don’t even think that guy got interviewed. I don’t think anybody was searched for to be honest with you. But all the teenagers, everybody my age knew that he was a suspect because they were saying Jimmy did it, but nobody did anything about it.

Chris: We’re talking about the Pinter Hotel?

Chicky: Yeah, That’s the one.

Chris: Did you witness the fire?

Chicky: Yeah of course I did. I was there. My mom witnessed the fire. We all did. It was so traumatic that my mom was outside screaming and screaming because the people were either throwing themselves out the window or burning to death. There was a family on the first floor and she had little kids. Her husband was working the night shift. And people were screaming, throw your kids down! Throw your kids down! She was scared to do it. She finally did it. Then she threw herself out the window. They caught her and they brought her to my mom’s candy store. Her and her kids. Her husband came running into the store. He was going crazy. Please, please, it’s okay, she’s in the store and he ran into the store and saw his family. During that time, my mom opened the store because she knew the firemen, it was cold. It was a cold day. And people were just going in and out. People needed refuge. So my mom opened this store, a que hora de la madrugada, that shit happened, I just know it was way before 5 in the morning. I remember one girl that I know. I didn’t really, I think maybe Bibi knew her better, Yvette, because she was younger. She was more like my sister’s age even though I knew this girl. She was sort of tomboyish, and, she jumped out from the top floor. She broke her legs, but she survived. I never saw her after that, but she survived. Her sister did not. Her other baby, they died out the window. That was tragic. I mean, you could see half of her body sticking out. That was bad. It was hard.

Chicky: I remember going on my 10 speed bike with my, I wanna say with my brother. Not the oldest that passed away, the other one (Tony). Going downtown to First Street to where headquarters was and watching the riot. My father, her dad (Bibi), which is my stepdad, got together with Black Panthers in Hoboken and started a riot. He got arrested and my mother got arrested. And they were hitting them with whatever. They did riot. I remember this saying, Jibaro Si, Yanqui No, Pa’arriba, Pa’bajo, Los Yanquis Pa’l Carrajo. I remember saying that young. I remember going to First Street and seeing the commotion. Then when I became a teenager, because when that was happening, during the riot, I was way younger. But when things calmed down and things got better, that’s when I learned how to go to the court, how to help the people. Whatever you told me to do, I would do. And there, it was where the kids would come in from after school, hang out. They had counselors if they needed a counselor. And as I got a little older, it was there at CUNA.

Chicky: We formed, like, a softball league for the girls and my friends, because, you know, they were not scared of the ball, They would play softball and would play against others. I would not play, I would just sit and cheer for them because I was scared of the ball. But, yeah, I was like, oh, no. That ball’s not gonna hit me.

Chris: What was the name of the softball team?

Chicky: Las Tainas. Yeah, I think I have pictures of our colors, it was purple, and then it had Las Tainas. Then our horoscope sign somewhere on there. I still stay in touch with 2 of the girls. One lives not so far from here, and the other one is in Puerto Rico. But, yeah, they would play, and it wasn’t just a bunch of Puerto Rican girls. There was, maybe 1 or 2 white girls that would also play with us. The thing is he wasn’t prejudiced (Chicky’s stepfather) and neither were we against anyone. Like, over there, I remember that’s why I tell my friends, when I was growing up, I really didn’t feel…I didn’t feel it (prejudice) maybe because I didn’t look for it. I was young and I wasn’t into that. I was just into hanging out and having fun. I didn’t feel any type of prejudice towards me. But as an adult, thinking back in high school, I do know there was prejudice, especially with a counselor from high school. It was a man. He did it to me, and he did it to my brother. I remember struggling. I was already in the 11th grade, already half a year until…I wasn’t feeling part of being there. I don’t know. I can’t describe it. I just felt older, and I felt like there were a bunch of kids, and I just don’t wanna be here. But I finally went up to him so he could counsel me, and he said, yeah, you know, I think the best thing you do is to quit. Just leave and go to vocational school. I think that’s what he told me because that’s exactly what I did. After half of the year being in the 11th grade and the same thing happened to my brother, my brother went to him. My brother’s older. That’s the one that passed away and had the same issue. And that’s the advice he gave. I mean, he never really gave the Hispanics or the minority good advice, but we didn’t know any better.

Chris: This was a white man.

Chicky: Yeah. Exactly. But then as I got older, you learn and you start to think about it. I didn’t, I never felt prejudiced, but then I started thinking, you know, this man could’ve counseled me and to say, look, you only have half a year, just, do this or whatever. No. And he did the same thing to my brother. But my brother, when he left school he joined the army and he finished high school there. He finished , he graduated, and he did 4 years in the army and then he came back home. And then he got the job over by the post office, and he worked there till he passed away.
Chicky: There was this lady that lived on 159 14th Street. That building, the people that were there, took the money, whatever they offered them so they could leave their place. This one lady didn’t want to. Una señora, Puerto Rican, bajita statured. She had 2 twin boys. They were already a little older. I wanna say they’re now my age I would assume because I remember them being little like me. This lady, she was the last one and she did not wanna leave. They waited for this lady to go food shopping, went in, and burned her apartment down.

Chicky: I’m sure the people that you spoke to that were in the fire and survived, they have to be traumatized. That’s not something you can get over. I wasn’t in the fire, but I witnessed it. I can’t sleep without clothes. I have to make sure that I have like, una batica, with pants because if I have to run, I have to run. I cannot sleep because that’s in my mind. I’m like, oh, no. That’s not gonna happen to me. And then I where I’m at right now, I’m always looking at the window, but I told my will I get hurt? You know? I wasn’t even in the fire. So I can’t imagine those people that you interviewed. You think you could be next. You think you could be next. Or what if? Every time I hear, like, the fire department, I can’t tell you, where I’m living right now! I hear them all the time. I hate it. I don’t like hearing it. It kinda freaks me out. I cannot sleep not prepared. I have to be prepared.

Chicky: The old Hoboken. It was so neighborly. Everybody said hi to everybody. We knew everybody. It was a large Hispanic community. A lot of them were moved to, like, PA, places like that. And, I actually sometimes well, most of the time, I’ll go to church on Willow because they give the Spanish Mass. The older ladies that are there, I know them well. My mom knows them well. And I feel that small community because that’s all there is. I think they’re all gone.

Chicky: In Hoboken they had pageants. I don’t know if you know about that? So the organizer was this lady named Minín. She was Puerto Rican, short statured. Minín was a nickname, I’m assuming, but that’s how we all knew her by. Minín organized a pageant, and I participated. I dressed as una Índia Taína. Yeah! Because I had to represent Puerto Rico even though I was born and raised here. My mom, thank god, raised us with that Puerto Rican root. Even if we’re not from Puerto Rico. My mom’s from Bayamon. And my mom came from Puerto Rico at the age of 16. I’ve always, always been proud, especially when I participated in that pageant to represent La Taina.